Interview with Shaun Willcock

Interviewer: “Tell us a little about your background in Rhodesia and how you came to South Africa.”

Willcock: “I was born in Rhodesia. My parents were both South Africans — fourth-generation South Africans — so my dad got a job there, met my mum, and I was born there. We came back to South Africa and then went back to Rhodesia a few years later, and then back again as the terrorist Bush War escalated. Many Rhodesians were leaving and South Africa, being right next door, was the natural choice for most of them.”

Interviewer: “The terrorists in that Bush War — were they Communist infiltrators trying to take over?”

Willcock: “They were fully supported by the Soviet Union of those days, by Cuba — in fact South African troops fought tens of thousands of Cuban troops in Angola. Most of the fighters were born in southern Africa but had been trained in Communist Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union and came back to fight against Rhodesia and later South Africa. From the outside they tried to take over the country militarily; from the inside they carried out terrorist bombings of civilians, shooting down aeroplanes, and so on.”

Interviewer: “Rhodesia has been called the bread basket of southern and central Africa.”

Willcock: “Considering its size — it is a very small country with a tiny population — it was producing an enormous amount of food and feeding the neighbouring countries of Zambia, Mozambique, and Botswana, all while under war and facing international sanctions. Petrol was not allowed in and all sorts of other goods were restricted. Towards the end of the war they were pretty much building their own equipment. For fifteen years they held off the Communist incursion — until they were betrayed by the West.”

Interviewer: “Ian Smith said: 'We were never beaten by our enemies; we were betrayed by our friends.'”

Willcock: “Exactly right. He expected the help of what we could call the Protestant West — and he did not get it. Great Britain in particular not only failed to help but was financing the Communist terrorists who were attacking Rhodesian forces. When the elections came that brought Robert Mugabe to power, they were pretty much controlled by Britain, who had sent troops into Rhodesia. The Rhodesian government had to take a back seat while Britain ran the country during the elections and saw to it that Mugabe's party won through violence and intimidation.”

Interviewer: “Robert Mugabe appears to have been Jesuit-educated.”

Willcock: “He went to a Jesuit mission school as a boy, so he was Jesuit-educated. How far beyond that it went I have not been able to confirm fully, except that when he met Pope Francis soon after Francis's inauguration there was that famous scene where Francis appears to bow to Mugabe — denied by Vatican insiders, but it certainly makes you wonder. Mugabe called himself a Roman Catholic for most of his life, though that did not put him above murdering Roman Catholic nuns. He also had a Jesuit advisor with him throughout his career, from his earliest days right through to the end.”

Interviewer: “Do you think it would be accurate to say that Rhodesia was overthrown by the Counter-Reformation?”

Willcock: “I can see why you would say that, and certainly it is what they wanted to happen. Rhodesia was clearly part of what we could call the Protestant West — if you picked up a book published in the United States or Britain, the back cover would list South Africa and Rhodesia alongside Canada and Australia as distribution territories. Rome has always wanted to destroy that. The fall of Rhodesia was just the next domino to be knocked down. At which point South Africa — being much larger and stronger — was completely surrounded by Communist states and became the next target. Rhodesia fell in the late 1970s, South Africa in 1994. Yes, I think it was part of an overall plan and strategy to destroy the Protestant West.”

Interviewer: “The 19th-century historian J.A. Wylie argued in 1881 that the Jesuits use Communism against countries they are trying to control. Would you agree?”

Willcock: “Absolutely. Even as far back as that, the early stages of Communism would have been directed by Jesuits. Once the Bolshevik Revolution occurred they lost a lot of that support, but they gained it again in the 1950s. Depending on the Pope of Rome at the time, you can see a very clear demarcation of whether the Vatican is pro-Communist, anti-Communist, or somewhere in between. Communism has been the muscle they have used. I think the reason is that they recognised Communism was succeeding where Nazism did not — so they threw their weight behind the winning horse.”

Interviewer: “Otto von Bismarck was publishing his belief in the 1850s that Karl Marx was working with the Jesuit General. Do you believe the Jesuits were co-authors of Communism and Socialism?”

Willcock: “I do think they were involved right from the beginning. You can go even further back to the French Revolution, which in many ways was a nascent Communist revolution before the philosophy had that name. The Vatican realised that times were changing — the divine right of kings was ending, people were demanding rights — and if they wanted to be on the winning side they had to start supporting and directing Communism. I think they were there at the very beginning.”

Interviewer: “Can you talk about the Jesuits and the World Wars?”

Willcock: “In both World Wars the Roman Catholic system was deeply involved. In both, the Vatican backed Germany, with the purpose of taking control of Europe and the world. When that failed in World War I, they moved on to preparations for World War II. Hitler was a Roman Catholic from Austria — a very Jesuit part of the German nation. Himmler's uncle was a Jesuit, and Hitler said of Himmler: 'I see in Himmler my Ignatius of Loyola.' Hitler fashioned the Gestapo along Jesuit lines. At the Treaty of Versailles, the Allied powers wanted to deny the Vatican a place at the table because they knew of its involvement in World War I. The Jesuit state of Croatia under World War II committed atrocities that at times made Nazi Germany look like they were in kindergarten — and it was run by Jesuits, as was Slovakia.”

Interviewer: “It has been reported that Mandela met with a Jesuit priest who gave him Communion while he was in prison. What do you think?”

Willcock: “I think the story is probably true. Mandela outwardly claimed to be a Methodist — he did that for obvious reasons, as South Africa is a very religious country. The only way a Communist leader could successfully take over would be to play to the religious people of this country. But he was open to various religions and had good relations with Muslims, Hindus, the South African Council of Churches, and Roman Catholic high-ranking priests — including Cardinal Hurley of Durban and South African Jesuits who were involved in promoting liberation theology. So yes, he would have rubbed shoulders with Jesuits in particular.”

Interviewer: “Nelson Mandela was a Communist, and he concealed his membership in the Communist Party.”

Willcock: “Yes, and that came out later. He was not in prison for being black. He went to prison for high treason — he could have received the death sentence. He wrote a pamphlet called How to Be a Good Communist. He was involved in plans for widespread sabotage of the country. No, he was not a good man — but the world was thoroughly hoodwinked about him.”

Interviewer: “Do you believe that what happened to Rhodesia and South Africa is currently what they are trying to do in the United States?”

Willcock: “Yes, 100 percent. I have said from as far back as the 1980s that the ultimate target is the United States — not only because of its size but because of its background of freedom and liberty, and particularly religious freedom. The idea was to weaken the US by picking off its allies around the Western world. In southern Africa the means was a violent Communist revolution — and by playing black against white, turning it into a racial issue, when in fact the real issue was red against white. It was a Communist revolution. And I think most Americans do not yet realise it.”